Central & Eastern Europe — The Velvet Revolution
03 · 01 · 06

Czech Interview 06 — Mr. Salát, Communist Party member at První brněnská strojírna foundry

Audio recording — in preparation
Editorial-clean transcript of an interview conducted by Mark McLaughlin in approximately 1994 (based on the post-interview tape capturing a news reference to the "5th anniversary approaches of the pro-democracy campaign in 1989") in Brno, Czechoslovakia / Czech Republic, for the MicroChronicle project. Interviewee: Mr. Salát (surname rendered as "Salad" by Whisper from the interpreter's pronunciation — to be verified from Mark's notes). A working-class Communist Party member from 1970, employed at První brněnská strojírna (PBS) foundry in Brno. Eventually became chairman of his factory's basic party organisation. In December 1989 was sent to Prague as the PBS representative at the (post-November-17) Communist Party congress. His wife, also a PBS employee, lost her job after the Revolution as a consequence of his Party role.
1. Family background — peasant origins, father becomes state farm director, then *kulak*
MARK

First of all — don't you mind if you ask the question — put into historical context, Czechoslovakia from 1968 through to 1989.

2. Entering the Party in 1970 — *"with my father's opinions"*
3. The basic Party organisation at PBS — *"the elementary level"*
INTERPRETER

Do you want him to talk about the period 1970–1990?

MARK

Yes.

4. Studying at the Party academy — workers' movement history, economics
5. The late 1980s — *"my pressure on our leadership grew"*
MARK

How did you criticise? What kind?

6. After the fall of Berlin — pressures inside the Czechoslovak leadership
INTERPRETER

If that's enough on that, you can evaluate the present —

MARK

Yeah, that'll be great.

INTERPRETER

What time are we talking about now? This is November?

7. The thesis — *"the Velvet Revolution was orchestrated by the secret services"*
MARK

In what capacity? Were they aligned with the dissidents at that point?

MARK

What was in it for them? For the secret police, the secret service — what did they get out of it?

8. Why the regime did not crush the demonstrations — *"younger people in the leadership"*
9. The dissidents arrive on the scene — emotional period, exaggerations
MARK

For example?

MARK

What kind of things?

MARK

Things went slowly — why?

MARK

How specifically did they forbid us, or prevent us?

10. Censorship and freedom — *"there was some, but not as bad as portrayed"*
MARK

Coming from the West, you always get one side of the story. And you always hear problems with censorship and lack of freedom and so on. What do you think about that?

MARK

Did you know about things the dissidents were doing? Did you hear about them at the time?

11. The better scenario for 1989 — *"keep the good, throw away the bad"*
MARK

What would have been a better scenario for you in 1989?

12. December 1989 — sent to Prague as the PBS representative
13. The personal cost — his wife's job
MARK

How?

14. Why did he stay in the Party? — *"working-class justice"*
INTERPRETER

One quick question. In 1989 most members of the Party decided either to leave or to change. I'd be interested why you stayed.

MARK

Is it possible to have a perfect communist society? You have an idea of the ideology — is it possible to achieve that? In the future, an ideal society?

15. The structure of power — *"two parallel structures"*
MARK

What was the structure of power? How did the government work? How many levels were there? Who would he report to? And who reported to him?

MARK

Nothing going back up?

16. The former Party members now in business — *"if he was expert then and is expert now, why not?"*
17. The future of the Communist Party
MARK

Will the Communist Party be more successful in the next elections? What should they focus on?

18. Closing exchange
MARK

Ottawa. And it's very cool.


Editor's notes
  • The interviewee's name. Whisper renders the interpreter saying "Mr. Salad" — almost certainly the Czech surname Salát (or Šalát, the Slovak form, less likely given his Moravian context). Mark's contemporaneous notes from 1994 should confirm. The name is significant for any 2026 follow-up: he would now be in his mid-seventies and may still be reachable through PBS company records or Brno Communist Party historical archives.
  • Confirmed proper names and references:

- První brněnská strojírna (PBS) — major Brno engineering and steel works, now part of Doosan Škoda; the foundry where Salát worked

- Jan Žižka (c. 1360–1424) — Czech Hussite military leader and theologian; founder of the proto-communal community at Tábor, which Salát references as his ideological touchstone

- Tábor — South Bohemian town founded by the radical Hussite (Taborite) movement in 1420, governed on principles of communal ownership and free exchange; the closest historical referent in Czech tradition for revolutionary communism

- Jiří Dienstbier (1937–2011) — Czech dissident journalist, Charter 77 signatory; became Czechoslovakia's Foreign Minister in 1989

- Václav Havel

- Mikhail Gorbachev

- Charter 77

- The Jazz Section — already documented in Interview 03; Salát confirms he was a passive consumer of their materials

- Radio Free Europe — Czech-language broadcasting from Munich

- Občanské fórum (Civic Forum)

- Žiguli — the Soviet-built Lada car, which Salát uses as an example of Soviet-imposed industrial limitation on Czech production

- Kulak — a peasant deemed wealthy enough to be classified as a class enemy by communist regimes; Salát's father was so classified in the 1950s

  • The thesis to handle carefully. Salát's argument that the Velvet Revolution was orchestrated by the secret services to accelerate a planned leadership change — with the November 17 violence at Národní třída being a deliberate provocation to discredit hardliners — is a real and persistent interpretation in former-Communist-Party circles, and is not without some evidentiary basis. The Czech parliamentary commission of inquiry that examined the events of 17 November concluded in 1992 that StB agents were involved (notably the "death" of student Martin Šmíd, who was actually an StB agent named Ludvík Zifčák playing dead to provoke outrage). The harder version of the thesis — that the entire revolution was orchestrated rather than catalysed — is contested by most Western and Czech historians but has adherents.

Editorial principle for the studio: this interview is precisely the kind of material that requires the story-not-statement discipline. The right way to handle Salát's thesis is to (1) present it in his voice, accurately, with respect, (2) corroborate the factual claims that are corroborable, and (3) contextualise the broader interpretive claim against current Czech and Western historiography. Do not flatten his view into a discredited fringe position; he is articulating something a significant minority of Czech Party members continued to believe, and his testimony is part of the historical record. This is also a strong test case for the principle that good investigative work investigates the system rather than adjudicates claims — Salát is naming a system question, and the studio's editorial work would investigate it on its own terms, not dismiss it.

  • Editorial moments worth flagging for Anabasis Season 1:

- The four-cow peasant boy who becomes a state-farm director, becomes a kulak, and dies in 1969 — Salát's father (Section 1). The entire arc of mid-century Central European political fate in three generations. Specific, vivid, unsentimental.

- Joining the Party in 1970 with his dead father's opinions (Section 2). The 1970 cohort of Communist Party members is historically a difficult group — they joined after the Soviet invasion, so they cannot claim ignorance of what the regime was. Salát's stated motive — "justice for ordinary people" — and his father's complicated example — does work that no Western commentary can. This is precisely the moral complication interview 01's math teacher was defending: she said you can't reduce Party members to bad people; Salát is the living instance of what she meant.

- "I was never afraid of saying my opinions" (Section 2 and throughout). Salát's account of being a critical voice inside the Party, pushing back from below, is the picture of internal Party life that almost never makes it into Western reportage. The system had internal dissent and accommodation that was real and consequential — and the people doing it were not dissidents.

- The thesis about the secret services (Section 7). Even if his interpretation is contested, his testimony as a December 1989 PBS delegate to the Communist Party congress is a primary historical source. He was in Prague during the period he describes.

- His wife losing her job because of his Party role (Section 13). The personal cost of being a Communist on the wrong side of the revolution. Pairs editorially with the Czech math teacher's husband (Interview 01) losing his career because he refused to sign the loyalty paper, and with the gymnasium teacher (Interview 03) whose underground theatre group was raided. Three transcripts, three families, three forms of cost. Symmetry is the spine.

- The question of whether ideal communism is possible (Section 14). Salát's answer — "Not possible. Because people are not like that" — delivered without bitterness by a man who has spent fifty years inside the project. One of the cleanest single lines in any of the interviews so far.

- The Tábor reference (Section 14). Salát situates his political conviction in a specifically Czech historical tradition — fifteenth-century Hussite communalism — that is older than Marxism and older than the modern Communist Party. This is the kind of deep-history thread that lifts the interview above standard Cold War nostalgia and into something with longer roots. The construction-vs-deconstruction frame can stretch back five hundred years here.

  • The post-interview tape — what was captured after Mark stopped recording the interview. Approximately 15 minutes of unrelated audio, in this order:

1. A short documentary-style narration: "The period between 1918 and 1938 saw most of the new states struggling with internal difficulties and resorting to authoritarian rule. Of all the states created, Czechoslovakia was the only one that kept a popularly elected government. Its stability, one historian suggests, rested on its strong industrial base."

2. REM — It's the End of the World as We Know It (And I Feel Fine) (1987). Played in full.

3. A brief news clip: "The correspondent says the arrest appears to be part of an attempt to discourage the possibility of protests as the fifth anniversary approaches of the suppression of the pro-democracy campaign in 1989. And that's the end of the world news."This dates the recording to November 1994, just before the 5th anniversary of the Velvet Revolution.

4. Jesus Jones — Right Here Right Now (1990). Played in full.

5. A brief fragment from what sounds like another Mark interview, possibly with a student leader or theatre figure: "Common people didn't know. We were the most informed group of people in Czech Republic. We were to inform other people what we are going to do, what happened, and our plans. That time we didn't have any computers, any copy machines, any players, any phones. We just had typing machines. So there was a group of typers and they just, for 24 hours they typed again and again and again." Then a description of putting posters on bodies because the secret police were taking them off walls. Worth checking whether this is from another interview Mark conducted and which one — it sounds like a student leader from the Brno Civic Forum. The "posters on bodies" image is striking and would make a great short-form visual.

6. An unidentified song with the chorus "My country right or wrong / My country going wrong" — possibly Wax/REM/another track from the era; the lyric "My country, my country going wrong" is editorially apt for the post-1989 disenchantment theme and worth identifying.

All of this is preserved in the raw WAV master. The fragment from item 5 is potentially recoverable as a stand-alone audio clip for archival use.

  • Consent: the more delicate of the interviews so far. Salát was a working-class Communist Party member articulating views that were unpopular in 1994 and may remain so in 2026. His thesis about the secret services has political and personal sensitivities. Public use without consent — direct from Salát if living, or from his estate — would be inappropriate. The Brno PBS company alumni network, or the KSČM (the current Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia) regional office in Brno, would likely help locate him or his family if he is no longer reachable directly.